SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Have a Chat with NIFAT, the First Aid Trainers podcast. Great conversations, practical insights, and everything First Aid Trainers love to talk about. If you're a NIFAC member, don't forget to head over to the member portal, complete the knowledge check, and download your PD evidence for today's episode. Right, let's get into it. Well, Jesse, this has been some time in the making. We're finally here on the couches in Sydney to record our very first podcast episode. I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Me too. It's pretty awesome. We've got our mugs and we've got our mannequin. And yeah. We are all upset.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

We hope that we invite members, non-members, anybody in the first aid community to join us on this great podcast journey. A new way, I suppose, of being able to actually give out information along with the other stuff that we do with webinars and conferences. And uh I don't know about you, but I listen to podcasts every day on my way to work, on the way home to work. So I think that this is a fantastic opportunity for first aid trainers to join the discussion.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

100%. I think it's great. You can listen in the car on your way home. And you know, you can recap on things as well, which I think is really good. That's something that's, you know, harder to sit down necessarily and watch a webinar, but you can just recap exactly how she goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

So welcome, welcome everybody, to our to our first episode. And um we are going to concentrate first of all, Jesse, on the massive event that we just had in Adelaide. So the 2026 National First Day Trainers Conference, which was an absolute ball. Um, you know, a huge event for us to organize, but it was just fantastic. This year's event was really, really great. What was your take on Adelaide?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Well, Adelaide itself put on a show for us. It was really great. I've never been to Adelaide before, so it was a really great city. So I really uh really enjoyed actually visiting Adelaide. It's a uh lovely city. Um and then yeah, the event was the event was massive. Uh obviously, one of the standouts for me was, you know, the launch of uh The Bible's not barriers, Women Need CPR2.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

The campaign.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Uh the campaign that was really exciting. And we uh dived right into that data with uh Professor Janet Bray, the lovely Janet, uh was able to dive into that research, which was uh certainly one of my highlights to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I think it it made a uh a huge difference to this year's event, something we haven't done before. So if you haven't uh looked at the campaign, we're not gonna go into it too much today, but the Boobies Not Barriers campaign, Women Need CPR too, um, has really started to take off. It launched at the conference uh and it's it's doing great online, it's great on socials. Uh there we we did a bit of a uh uh a uh uh PD webinar the other night, didn't we? Uh in regards to that campaign and what that's doing and the data behind it. So if you haven't looked into that, guys, we highly recommend for you to go and go and have a look at. But yeah, really, really good. Uh Janet was well received. So Janet was the uh, you know, one of our star presenters this year, let's say. Uh first time that she joined us at the conference, but she did have some really interesting information. You bring up the boobies not barriers. There was also a whole load of stuff around AED training, which I'll talk about a little bit later on.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Janet was one of our um, she did some of our like most sessions, didn't she? She did.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

I think um, I'm sorry, Janet, we did use and abuse you at this year's event, I'm afraid, but uh uh you came with a wealth of knowledge which people really did receive quite well.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Yeah. She did some really great stuff on AEDs.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Uh that was that was definitely a highlight as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

And a lot of the stuff that was able to actually be uh directly relevant to the training room. That was the that was a good thing that I found from a lot of the sessions this year. It was great data, great information, but also how that can then be used from a trainer's perspective, which we need to remember. That's why people are there. That's why people are hopefully listening to this podcast. They want to know, you know, this information, how can I use it in my own classes?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

So um tell us a little bit, without going into too much depth, what were some of the key facts, I suppose, from the data in regards to the boobies not barriers campaign? What is it, what is it showing? What why are why are we having this campaign?

SPEAKER_02 3:48

So, look, basically, you know, in a nutshell, women, particularly in a bystander situation in public, uh, women are less likely than men to receive CPR, and even more so have AED pads applied. And there are a number of reasons why women are a little bit disadvantaged here. Um, you know, some of it is to do with recognition, which Janet went into at the conference, you know, people not realizing that uh women are in cardiac arrest.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

So that's like differences between maybe signs and symptoms that they may expect to see or somebody expects somebody to see going into cardiac arrest or having heart problems.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Definitely. I think it's also there's this idea that women faint.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Oh, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

I think there's this idea. So if a woman collapses in the street, there's this, oh, the woman has fainted, and that's they're calling triple zero saying a woman has fainted, not this woman's in cardiac arrest. And I think it just takes a little bit longer if you say someone's fainted when they're actually in cardiac arrest for the ambulance to isn't that interesting though.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Why that you know, why I wonder why it is like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Is it Yeah, it's interesting. It's just this idea that women faint.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

And men don't, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

And men don't apparently faint. I remember a number of times when I have, but yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

So just the linguistics, I suppose, around what we're saying to the ambulance service when that happens. Okay, so recognition.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

So that makes a difference. Um and then obviously the campaign is around the boobies. So, you know, there there is some hesitation around the boobies. Now, this is not saying that people um, you know, don't want to help. It's that, you know, the woman's there and you know you need to do CPR, but what do you do with the boobs? There's this sort of it it causes hesitation of and am I gonna get in trouble? So, you know, if if I do the wrong thing, if I press too hard, will I hurt the woman?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

If I accidentally touch a nipple.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Accidentally touch a nipple, especially, you know, with the AED pads. Uh, if the c the bra is in the way, you know, you have to get that off or move it out the way, in which case, you know, there's a reasonable chance you're going to expose the breast and the nipple. And, you know, well, then people pause. Am I allowed to do that? Am I going to get in trouble? You know, all that kind of stuff. And it causes hesitation and delays in public. So I think that's, well, that's what the data says is a lot of the reasoning behind um, you know, behind some of the areas, the disparities. And it's just about having that conversation. And what we want to do is encourage people to have these conversations in training. So we don't want the first time they've thought about this, or what do I do about the boobies, shouldn't be when someone's in cardiac arrest. They should have already thought this through. Yeah. That if someone's in a cardiac, it doesn't matter. It's still the center of the chest. I'm allowed to touch the boobs and move them out the way that's allowed. So I think that's that's really what it's about. It's about starting these discussions so people have thought about it ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah. And, you know, and I said we don't we we don't want to go into it too much, but it the the boobies not barriers campaign. The name, the logo, the slogan, it was all designed to bring attention to something. It doesn't mean the boobies are the only issue around this. And and we we we we tried to show that through the conference and through the campaign and some of the other resources. There are lots of reasons why there uh there is this disparity. The legalities, the the the hesitation around uh removing bras if needed. Um, there's a whole reason, a whole load of reasons why this is a problem. And and what this campaign does is highlight it, it starts the conversation. And for our trainers, it's about actually, as you as you mentioned before, dealing with this in the classroom, not on the side of the road. That's when it might be a bit of a problem. So look, um, if you haven't looked at the stuff already, guys, get online, have a look at the boobies not barriers. Uh, it was a highlight of the conference. The data was really, really interesting. Um and uh the video as well. Video as a highlight.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

It was such a good video.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, so have a look at the video. Do we have the video? We have to see if we can get that out. I don't know if we actually got the the the one with all the trainers and their uh uh their uh not nude shots, but certainly their uh calendar girl style photos. If we haven't got that online, we'll we'll we'll make sure we put it out there. And the shirts, the amount of people that want the shirts. So you'll see lots of those in training rooms soon, I think, as well. Okay, so campaign was great. Uh what are the highlights for you were there from this year's event?

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Oh my god, there were so many. Well, I've gotta say, I loved having Andy Lucky there.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

That was a highlight. So Andy flying all the way from the UK just for our conference. Uh I think he spent some time um whining and dining in Adelaide as well while he was there. But yes, that was a real highlight. And I, you know, I think you said at the conference that this now makes us international. International if we've got international speakers and we had some of the Kiwis hop across the ditch as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

We did, we did.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Definitely a lot of uh a lot of newbies to this conference. There were a lot of people at this year's conference, which is great to see.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Uh, me and Andy had a bit of a showdown in our session. Uh very enjoyable session to have and a privilege, really, for me to be able to sit on the couch with somebody like Andrew Lockheed uh and and and have a bit of fun, but also, you know, get some information across as well. So the Battle of the Andes was lots of fun. Yeah. Uh looking at the differences between uh training in a in a community space or non-accredited style training compared to what most of our trainers will do, which is the uh the nationally recognized or the accredited training. And um, you know, is one better than the other? I don't know. Did we we did we decide who won the battle in the end? I I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Uh well, I think it was it was pretty even, to be honest. I thought Andy Lockheed had it, I've got to say. He was up, he hit it hard. He looked confident, he was very confident and he got the votes up front. But you came back swinging, I've got to say.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

I did. I I I reckon it was blue all the way. He won't agree.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

He won't agree.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Uh, but no, very that very interesting talk. And the good thing again with uh the the information that Andrew brought was that he's coming from a place in the UK where they've actually done a lot of these things, where they've implemented CPR training into schools, where they've got the Resarta Heart Day, where they've got that association with FIFA or the uh, you know, the huge sporting clubs in the UK where they can actually come and say, look, this is what we've done. Yeah, uh, this is the data we've got out of it, this is what we're trying to implement. And for us here in Australia, uh, where we're not quite at that point, I mean, you know, it would be great to get CPR training to every school. Uh and for us, I suppose we think, well, that that's the the end goal. But as Andrew highlighted, actually, that was just the start. Yeah. You know, getting getting teachers to actually start delivering CPR training in schools was fantastic. But that then identified a number of other issues around well, how do we keep these trainers uh or these teachers you know current and competent in CPR? How are we supporting them? So um it was it was good to understand that I think that you know a lot of this stuff takes a long time to get into schools or to get into other programs, but but it actually is the beginning, not the end of that process sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah, I think there's some big things coming, and I think it's really good because we're able to see, you know, there'll be some data available from other countries when it does sort of get implemented here. And I think it's starting here. Yeah, it's certainly a movement to start that here for sure. But uh, you know, we'll be able to look at the data and learn from what worked, what didn't, where the pain points are, and hopefully move it forward. But yeah, I think there is so much more we can do in this space.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Uh, and I think Andy Lockheed highlighted that that, you know, there is a lot more coming. And I think I think it will look very different five, 10 years from now, yes, what we do in the community education. And one great thing about being in Adelaide was all the AEDs everywhere. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

As I said, you were tripping over them.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Yeah, they're just everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

First state in Australia to legislate DFibs, and they've done a great job down there. Uh, it would be great at some point to see some some data in relation to survival rates, I suppose. So having more AEDs is great, obviously a big expense. Does it improve survival? You'd assume so. Uh, hopefully we can get some data at some point. But I can remember walking through one of the Westfields down there and going, there's one, there's one, there's one, there's one. They were everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Every tram, every hotel, just fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

No, it was. I think we had pre pre-the conference, we had a little competition of find all the AEDs and the chat just went nuts because there's so many. Adelaide is there's one, there's one, there's one.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

All the train, yeah, everywhere, which is great. So, so well done, Adelaide. Or what does South Australia have really nailed the AED legislation down there for sure? Um, what were some of my highlights, I suppose? Because it's it's hard for us, isn't it? Because we're there, but we're sort of not there as well. We're still trying to get everything done and make sure everyone gets fed and watered and all that sort of stuff. But you know what? One of the really interesting things I found was the conversation that Janet had or the presentation that Janet had around uh AEDs. And what they have done is actually gone and um done a bit of a I won't say research trial, paper, whatever it might have been. I can't remember without looking back at my notes, but it was looking at untrained people. Um, I think there was some trained in there as well, but looking at different brands of AEDs and could people use them?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

And one of the statistics that I can remember from the group of people that they had when they were given different models of ADs was that 20% of those people couldn't even turn the AD on. So isn't that I mean, there's your chain of survival gone.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

So if you can't get, if you can't get the AD on even though it's there, then that's a problem. Yeah. And what she was able to do was to relate that back to the training room and go, okay, look, guys, we're using maybe generic first aid or first aid training equipment or generic AEDs, which maybe aren't actually reflective of what people are going to see out in the community. And that that that's probably a bit of an issue. Uh when it comes to them using uh uh you know a cheap uh disposable AD, whatever it might be in the classroom, and then they're going out and they're pulling one out of a cabinet that looks nothing like the one they've trained on, then that's that's an issue.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

So, and and there was other things that that that uh Janet highlighted that some people, even though the the on button was quite clear, they were still unpacking it out of cases and doing things that wasn't required in order to operate the AED. And some of these actually were clinicians, because I can remember her saying, you know, this one of one of the people was an experienced ED nurse. Yeah, um, yet could not quickly operate the AED.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Uh and that is something that trainers can fix.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Definitely. And I think it's so important that, you know, these discussions are happening in class. And even, you know, even letting people know. I think if people anticipate some of the pain points that are going to come up, you know, this is what you might experience. You know, there's a this is the AED, or even if you have a variety in class, which I think is a good idea if you've got, if you're able to do that of show a variety, um, or even if it's, you know, the very least on your PowerPoint. But even then, you know, you can't show them all. No. And, you know, letting them know that, you know, it might look a bit different. It might do this, it might do this, and you know, that they're not complex. And I think I suspect, you know, people might be looking for um because they feel like it's a complex machine, they're looking for it to be complex. Like, oh, it can't be this simple with a button, it must be, you know, I have to do this and plug something in and all that kind of stuff. So um, you know, I think that the training room can absolutely make a huge difference to that.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

And you know, owning an RTO myself, I understand the the cost pressures and things around that. But I think you highlighted an important point. You know, we we can show people different models on PowerPoints, we can include it in pre-course learning or e-long uh e-learning modules. Uh, we can have a few, let's say, popular models of DFib trainers in the classroom. But when it's when it actually comes to the point that everybody needs to use an AD, well, yes, we might not be able to have every model of every brand, of every you know, make, but uh at least having that conversation, because you know, Janet's highlighted, uh, this is a problem. Yeah. Uh, and we really as an industry need to respond by that to that by going, okay, well, how can we help? If 20% of those people that you that you used in this in this study couldn't turn the machine on, how can we fix that? Yeah. Uh is it that we can tell people it's not that complicated? Don't go looking for the button, it will be obvious. Um there were some other things I think that maybe manufacturers need to think about because one of the other issues was that some of the pad diagrams were not reflective of accuracy of pad placement.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

So if the pads aren't right, then that's an issue. And if we're teaching, yeah, that's right. And if we're teaching people the correct thing in class and then we're saying, but then follow the prompts or follow the diagrams, and those are wrong, then you've got that conflicting information which is going to cause confusion and again, hesitation. Or do I do what my trainer said? Do I do what the pad show? Um, yeah. So it I really encourage anybody if you if you weren't at the conference, the recordings will be available soon. Uh go and have a look at these sessions. The AED one I find fascinating. There's a whole load of uh of different data that came out of that.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

One thing Janet said in the AED thing, which I had never it makes total sense, but I'd never thought about is the amount of AEDs that are locked behind the nine to five business. So there's AEDs all around you, but they're all in shops or factories or things like that, that five o'clock shut their doors and the AED is shut behind the door. So you can't get it. And that that blew my mind when she said that. That, you know, why don't you don't think about it, do you?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

You think, oh yeah, this business has got a AED, that's great. But oh yeah, they're only actually their seven hours rate every day.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

You know, after dinner time onwards until the next day, you know, you might not have an AED as close as you think. So, and I think it's probably a good idea for you know people in the classroom to be encouraged to find out what AEDs are near them. Yeah. You know, what what model is it and get familiar again, familiar before the emergency. So look it up. How if it's a you know, a Zole or a heart sign or whatever it is, um, you know, near you, go and look up how do I turn it on? What's it gonna look like? What's it gonna say? What type of DFib is it? I think, you know, that's something I actually do in my training.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

So when I do get in the training room, which isn't very often anymore, but when I do, um, I say to people, look, have a think, have a think about those locations where you spend a lot of time, whether it's at home, at work, whether it's at a community event, and have a think, where are your closest ADs? Uh, and and I always give the uh the analogy that, you know, or the example that every Coles and Woolies has one. And quite often when you're out and about, you can think to yourself, oh yeah, well, I know the where the nearest Coles is or I know where the nearest woolies is. And as you say, you've got it in your workplace, go and have a look at it. Don't be afraid, get out of the cabinet, yeah, have a look at it. Where's the on button? Where's the prep kit? Where, where are the pads located, so that in the uh you know event that you ever have to get that out, you've got some uh you know, an idea of of what you're actually looking at. Yeah, really. So really, really interesting. And as I encourage everybody, go and have a look at that. Um, how about Hugh? Hugh has always received popular. He's very popular, he calls a spade a spade, which um I I love. I think that that's great. Um, he did a session this year around myths and misconceptions. And this is one of the things that I always get on my soapbox about a little bit as well. Uh when trainers sort of tell stories or say things that just aren't true, or they've heard from somebody, and this might not be their problem, you know, um new trainers coming into the industry, obviously you're encouraged to go and watch other trainers train, but that can cause problems um if those things that are being communicated during classes are just not fact-checked, they're not evidence-based. And uh, and Hugh gave us some examples. What did you think about um Hugh's session? And was there anything from that that you uh that stood out for you in particular?

SPEAKER_02 18:15

I mean, I just Hugh always stands out for me because I just find him so funny. He's such a character, he's so fun to watch, and I think people find him really engaging. But yeah, I mean, I just couldn't believe I just couldn't believe the amount of misconceptions that are out there, yeah, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I mean, there's that keep coming up as well. You just didn't never seem to be able to get them to go away. Yeah, yeah. Um, the uh the one that I think stood out for me a little bit wasn't even a myth or a misconception. It was more it was more around uh getting people to understand that telling people to do things that aren't going to make a difference to the patient uh can be harmful in a in a in another way. So I'll give you I'll give you an example in the example that he gave. So in the presentation, there was this whole thing about remove uh or loose and tight restricted clothing. And you know, I've been trained for 20 years, and I I can remember using this saying over and over, you know, provide reassurance, loosen tight restricted clothing, blah de blah. But he actually showed where that came from. And can you remember the year of it? I can't remember now. He showed it in his PowerPoint, the year that it first appeared. First appeared in a first aid manual, it was like 18 something or whatever it was. And it was when uh women obviously would wear very tight clothing, whether it was done up from the back with, you know, shoelaces, whatever they might have been, um, where actually, yes, they were actually restrictive. Yeah. And that's when it first showed. But for some reason, every first aid manual that was ever produced after that just had a copy and paste. Oh, it's in that manual. So we'll copy and paste it into that one and copy. So we're still having it come into manuals now, loose and tight and restrictive clothing. And you go, okay, well, what difference does it make? Well, it doesn't make any difference. You know, we don't wear things that are so tight now that are going to restrict oxygen flow.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

And we're still saying to people, you know, loose and tight and restrictive clothing. And what Hugh said was, okay, well, it's not harmful. You're not gonna harm someone from doing it. But actually, maybe what you're doing is uh overloading people's mind with information and things to do when they should have been doing something else. Yeah. So they might have been loosing tight, restricted clothing, but they should have been doing something that was actually going to be beneficial for the for the person.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

So saying things that okay, aren't harmful might be in another way. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah, definitely. I think I think it's overloading and also, you know, it delays. Yeah. If you're sitting there, especially if you're on your own, you're sitting there with someone in cardiac arrest fiddling with clothes when that's not necessary. Yeah. Well, it's a it's an unnecessary delay. You know, you want hands straight on the chest.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Um you can understand, I suppose, you know, if you get a first aider that's tra treating someone that's having difficulty breathing, you know, anaphylaxis asthma. Oh, oh, that's right. I can remember. So let's loosen your tight restrict. No, give them adrenaline. Yeah. Or give them salbutamol. That's what's going to fix it. It's not the tight, you know, loose and tight or restrictive clothing. Yeah. And he gave a number number of examples like that. I don't know if you remember as well the you know, ice on the forehead or the back of the neck for nosebleeds. Nosebleeds, yes. You know? Yeah. And I mean, he was so blunt in the way that he said it, but it was great. Why?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

You haven't got any blood vessel anywhere near there that a cold pack on the skin is gonna make any difference to a nosebleed. Lean your head forwards and pinch below the bridge.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

That's what's gonna make the difference. But again, it's in a manual somewhere, or I heard it somewhere. If you put a nice pack on your forehead or around the back of the is gonna, it's not no, forget it. And it comes back to what we continue to say, which is keep to the guidelines and get people to remember the things that are gonna make a difference, not all the rest of the noise that might be around.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yeah. Yeah, gosh. It makes me think it's probably a good thing. Some of the things from like back in the 1800s they used to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Thank God they're not still in there because you know was it blowing tobacco up some of the bum and all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Oh yeah, yeah. They used to be there. So yeah, I think there's a lot, a lot of things that come from eras where, well, we didn't know any better, or like you said, we The corset thing, it made sense back then.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yes. Um but nobody's looked at it since.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

No one's no one's checked it and updated it since. So yeah, it's interesting the way these things, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Yeah, they appear.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

They appear and they do, yeah. And it was it with the nosebleed one um and the ice on the back of the neck, there were, you know, a few people who sort of went, like you could see some of the people, oh yeah. I thought I thought that was, you know, that's they thought it was real.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

But there was actually a number of times during this year's conference uh where I did think to myself, oh, okay, that that's an interesting question because I would have thought that that was quite clear. Like and uh and this isn't faults of trainers, it's not faults of RTOs, but it is, I think, something that I'm seeing more often where maybe sometimes just the basics aren't being taught to new people coming into the industry. So if we've got trainers coming in to RTOs or training providers that are new, maybe they're not coming from a clinical background, or maybe they are coming from a clinical background, but a much higher level, that maybe we're not giving them the basics. Yeah. You know, there were some questions around things like or some comments around, you know, removing piercings or jewelry from um from ears and from the face when you're gonna defibrillate somebody, for example. And you're like, well, that's not a thing. Like you don't need to do that. Yeah, it's fine to have metal on the body when you're gonna defibrillate somebody. You know, maybe that was different 20, 30 years ago, but it's okay now.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

So um I think that sometimes coming to these conferences or any event, you might go, you know what, I didn't, I didn't learn a huge amount, but what I did learn was what I'm teaching is right, or maybe I did pick up a few little things like that that might have been a passing comment or a passing question.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Uh, and you know, some of the stuff that we're gonna do next year in relation to the launch of the new Knife at website and the ask an expert and uh uh and the other features, people will be able to go on there and just ask questions like that. And if they've got questions where they think, oh, I don't know if this is right or wrong, yeah, for goodness sake, ask us.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Yeah, just ask. Exactly. I do think it's a problem. Um, and I've certainly experienced this, you know, throughout my career, where once you get to a certain level, things seem obvious. Like the basic, you know, you sort of make the assumption that, well, everyone knows this. It's it's really basic to you because you've been in the industry 20 years and it's something you do every day. And I certainly see, you know, uh medical people do this with like the language they use, for example. They'll, you know, use medical terms because it just eventually just rolls off your tongue and you that's the word you use, but you don't realize that other people don't use that term. So I think that's potentially where it might come from, is experienced trainers make the assumption that, oh, it's basic, everyone must know that, and therefore don't cover it as much. Yeah, uh, potentially. Whereas, you know, new people coming in, well, they they might not know what the Yeah, you're you're you're right.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

We do need to sometimes concentrate maybe on some of the basic stuff. And and uh the you know, the conference was a great, great ability to actually look at you know, begin beginning of your career as a first aid trainer, right up to those that have been doing it for many, many years. Uh Hugh also did the one of the workshops the night before as well. Uh and I or the day before, I should say, and and again, well received. There was a bit of a focus this year at the conference around education, wasn't there? There's a number of sessions that looked at how and why we teach, not just the actual clinical aspect of it as well. What were your thoughts on that? Did you did you feel that same vibe? Do you think that people appreciated that?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

I definitely did. And I'm a I'm a huge, huge advocate for the way we teach, you know, adult learning principles and how to effectively teach in a classroom. And I think it's, I mean, a certain passion of mine, and I believe everyone should be not only constantly improving their, you know, clinical knowledge, they should be constantly improving their way that they teach and making things more engaging and finding new creative ways to do that. So I'm a huge advocate for that. And I think that was really reflected in this year's conference, the education side of things.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Um, and it's it's so important. I mean, you could know every ounce of clinical detail, but if you don't deliver it in a way that's effective and impactful and memorable, then it's not going to stick. And you've not helped as many people as you could have. So I think it's it's really important. I definitely noticed that um, you know, with the workshops and across the whole conference, there seemed to be this reoccurring theme, which was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yeah, and there's some good evidence now from Ilcor and Anne's Corps, some guidelines and some uh you know policy statements around the teaching.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Um, and you know, that you know, remembering about cognitive overload and the impact that that has on long-term retention of information and and looking at you know, short, um frequent training sessions are probably better than long uh drawn-out sessions. And so I I think it's really good now that we're actually looking at that as well, that we're looking at how and why we teach, not just what we teach.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Okay, so so many great presenters, great sessions at this year's event. Um, we just haven't got time in this set uh this episode to go through them all. So if people weren't uh were not able to make the conference uh and they're interested in in looking into this more, what options are available? What can they do to actually get this information and uh and see what the conference was like?

SPEAKER_02 27:03

So watching the recordings. Yep. You want to watch the recordings, which will be available uh soon.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

There are there we're doing stuff in the background with those. We are uh so we haven't we haven't forgotten it's there. We're just working in the background to get all that up and up and ready for people. So um I think watching the recordings um is the place to start. Yep. And then um, you know, speaking to speaking to people who were there. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yeah, if you know someone that was there, have a chat with them because the feedback that we got this year was fantastic, which we really appreciate people, you know, taking the time to give us that feedback. Um, for us it's it's looking forwards and looking at what's coming next. Yes. Uh lots is is what's coming next, basically. But uh a virtual event next year and then the big conference again the year after. But uh Jesse, you know, this year's event was fantastic. You had a big input into this year. It went really, really well. Um, we loved having all of the trainers there. Uh quick, this was a quick, quick re recap on what happened, but you know, go online, have a look at those recordings and uh really good stuff for you to get into was as trainers and and and and stuff that you can actually use for your training room.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah, I think, I mean, I don't think there was any session that was like there's nothing you could get out of it. I think every single session had really high value. Uh I cer I certainly found that I've been, you know, training for a number of years myself, and I'm, you know, a clinical myself, I'm a nurse, and I found every single session had something valuable that I've taken away and made changes to the way I do things uh moving forward. So I think it was a it was a really great event.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

It was. Thanks for everybody that joined us at the event and uh thank you for joining us for this uh episode uh looking back at this year's conference, 2026 National First Day Trainers Conference in Adelaide. Uh join us on our next episode, Jesse. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Have a Chat with Knife Man, the First Day Trainers podcast. Have a question or a suggestion for an episode? Let us know. Link in the show notes. And if you're new to the show, be sure to follow us wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. We'll see you next time.